Why You Should Give A Damn!

Newsletter Archive

Newsletter #3, October, 2005

Willie Brown Interview

by Davina Kotulski, Ph.D.

Cowardice asks the question - is it safe?
Vanity asks the question - is it popular?
Expediency asks the question - is it political?
But conscience asks the question - is it right?
There comes a time when one must take a position that is neither safe, popular, or political; but because it is right.

~ Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

Over two years ago, before same-sex marriage was legal in Canada, Belgium, Massachusetts, and Spain, I began a series of interviews with individuals and couples from a variety of backgrounds and circumstances who share a common passion-they were all working tirelessly to create the possibility of marriage equality for same-sex couples. Some of these folks, like Molly and I, were dedicated to this reality long before civil unions and Gavin Newsom came along and long before it was legal in the Netherlands.

I wanted to understand what made these people so passionate about this issue, how they fueled themselves in the face of extreme adversity and how they knew in their hearts that marriage equality was a civil rights issue.

From April 2003 until December 2004 I interviewed approximately 50 people who I call Love Warriors, people so committed to the power of love that they would peacefully put themselves in harm’s way, sustaining verbal ridicule and social ostracism, and sometimes threats of/ or actual violence to fight for full equality. I’d like to begin sharing their stories with you and how an ordinary person can become an extraordinary leader and humanitarian. I will start with the former Mayor of San Francisco Willie Brown and what he shared with me in 2003 on why he gave a damn about same-sex marriage!

Willie Brown Interview     Summer 2003

Willie Brown was born in 1934 in Mineola, Texas. At the time of this interview he was 69 years old, separated, and the Mayor of San Francisco.

Tell me a little about your family life. What kind of family did you grow up in?

I had a large sprawling family, dominated by women—especially my grandmother. I had three sisters, and though my mother and I were very close, she worked as a maid in Dallas, so my grandmother did most of the childrearing. It was a typical rural, southern experience, which only seemed desolate in retrospect. At the time, I sort of enjoyed being “country,” at least until my teens. I had to work hard, from a very young age. I learned quickly that I preferred to use my brain rather than my brawn—because there wasn’t much of the latter.

What compelled you to begin doing Domestic Partner Commitment Ceremonies?

Shortly before I took over as Mayor, then-Supervisor Carole Migden passed local legislation officially recognizing domestic partnerships in San Francisco. I then took the opportunity to use my office as a place for same-sex couples to enjoy marriage ceremonies at City Hall.

Are Domestic Partnerships enough?

Enough for whom? Are they the Holy Grail for the LGBT community? I don’t think so. I don’t think the community should be satisfied until it enjoys all the rights and privileges that the heterosexual community enjoys, universally.

Why do you believe same sex marriage should be legal?

Because couples of any sexual orientation ought to enjoy the same rights and privileges as heterosexual couples, period.

What do you believe marriage does for same sex couples?

Exactly what it does for hetero couples—at least it should. And that answer is as infinitely varied as the people who get married.

What are the costs to society by not allowing same sex couples to marry?

By creating a legal—and, subsequently, a social and economic—barrier between one segment of the society and the rest of us, we create all sorts of resentments, hardships and pathologies. Most fundamentally, we propagate an unjust society, which exacts untold costs for generations.

How does this fit into your religious views?

My vision of the supreme-being is a God who loves all his children. My God would not separate one segment of the population and subject it to discrimination, ridicule or unequal status; that’s something human beings do, not the good Lord.

How do you believe this issue is similar to interracial marriage?

In the sense that millions of people seem to be averse to an idea that any rational, fair-minded human being should have no problem with. And I believe just as the number of people who hated the idea of “miscegenation” eventually dissipated to almost nothing—well, to the number of hard-line, hateful bigots—I believe the number of people who oppose gay marriage will eventually shrink to something insignificant.

What criticisms have you faced based on your decisions?

I’ve faced criticism my whole life, for virtually every major decision I’ve ever made. I don’t really let that stand in the way of doing what I think is right. When it came to supporting gay rights, it really wasn’t a difficult decision for me, and the criticism for that decision has waned considerably over time.

How do you know you are doing the right thing?

I listen to opposing views, take informed counsel, weigh various concerns and absorb any factual data—then make my own decision.

Did you always feel same sex couples deserved the same rights as opposite sex couples?

Yes.

When did you first get involved in the same sex marriage movement?

I don’t know—I couldn’t point to a single moment when my involvement in the general gay rights movement segued into a specific same-sex marriage movement. For me, it’s always been part and parcel to the struggle for equal rights under the law and in the eyes of society.

What do you feel is your role in this movement?

To use whatever political influence and bully pulpit I have—at the moment, as mayor of San Francisco—to support the rights of same-sex couples and create an environment where they enjoy the same rights and privileges as everyone else.

How do you feel you’ve made a difference?

My greatest contribution was probably authoring and, after five tough years, securing passage of the Consenting Adults Act, which decriminalized homosexual activity between consenting adults in California, in 1975. Once the “sodomy laws” were finally stricken from California, then we could take the movement toward full equality several steps forward.

How would you approach someone who is on the fence about same sex marriage?

I’d ask them to give me one good reason why two people who wanted to get married should prevented from doing so. And when they failed on that count, I’d ask them why they are so threatened by what two other people choose to do. If they managed any form of argument at all, I’d debunk it.

When do you think same sex marriage will be legal in the United States?

When the fair-minded and decent people among us break the strangle-hold of the religious right on the cultural imagination of the masses. Many people don’t realize they’re being ignorant and bigoted by being against same sex marriage, and that’s thanks in large part to some kind of “sanctity of marriage” argument—which somehow only applies to heterosexuals—that the religious right has foisted on the rest of us. Unfortunately, it’s seeped into the mainstream, and must be flushed.

Who are your favorite civil rights leaders and inspirationalists?

Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. and Justice Thurgood Marshall.